Richard Luthmann and Michael Volpe tackle the parental alienation debate, questioning whether it’s a syndrome, a legal weapon, or a product of lobbying in the DSM-V.
This has been an extremely difficult topic for me to navigate. There is so much controversy and it breaks my heart (further) as I see already targeted parents being divided in the trenches; this often seeming to be a mom vs dad arena. The last thing we need is further division.
For context: I fled DV and my abusers have stolen my babes from me, aided by CPS and the courts. Both fathers/abusers are on different ends of the spectrum and so I have experienced with both aspects, and my stance is similar to yours, Richard. IE just because some falsely scream ‘rape,’ doesn’t mean we should take the term ‘rape’ off the table. To me it feels like a fight that isn’t worth fighting, because PA is widely enough known at this point. I personally feel like we should use what we can, because it is so difficult already to get awareness on ANY perpetrations.
My abusers didn’t start with alienation, but they have absolutely moved onto it, and continue to perpetrate it, doing all they can to destroy my babes (me being their target), as well as our bonds. My particular abusers have differing motivations for doing so, but the resulting harm is quite similar. AND I believe I could come up with ‘better’ evidence of alienation than of the other abuses that are being perpetrated on my babes.
Thank you for debating about this. I desperately wish we could all come together and focus on the behaviors and perpetrations, rather than the terms, and use what we can to get our babes safe.
Note: I will also say that we as dv survivors need to continue focusing on healing, and be extremely careful with how we conversate with our babes about their experiences. I see a very fine line between us also alienating our babes even from their/our abusers. I’m going to catch hell for this, but I do ultimately believe that once we protect them, it is important that they themselves navigate the narrative they will use to describe their experience. When my babes are safely back with me, it will be important for me to carefully address harmful behaviors without naming names.
The term is known, but it is not well defined. it means whatever each person wants it to mean. If you are fine with quack psychologists going into court to label people with pseudoscience, then don't fight it. I will. PA is a bogus term.
Maybe, a lot of babies are unsafe because this term is used. I don't care if you use it here; except, it's not merely used by parents here. It's used by psychologists in court and with the same vague allegation.
I don't know what you mean when you say that your abuser moved to alienation. That means nothing. You need to be more specific, in my opinion.
At the risk of sounding like a utilitarian or a pragmatist, are more babies "unsafe" because of the use of the term "parental alienation" than would be the case were the term to be stricken from the legal and medical lexicon? Is the use of "parental alienation" meaningful in most divorce cases?
To use a sports analogy, I think back to 2013 in fantasy football when Peyton Manning had 55 TD passes and almost 5,500 yards passing, shattering the single season records. The percentage of players who had Manning and won their leagues was astronomical. No other player was nearly as statistically significant.
Is "parental alienation" Peyton Manning? If it's there, it always has to be looked at as THE dominant factor in divorce? Or is it some other "also ran" and there are bigger issues driving the Family Court trauma?
If the term was stricken, then people actually have to say what's happening rather than describing everything as PA. That would not only remove the false label but force people to be exact, rather than falling back on describing everything as PA. Many kids would be safer as a result.
Right, I understand. I just wish there was something we could use that would cover ALL of our babes in harms way.
What I mean is that my babes would never have willingly gone to him intially (he used $, power, control, and lies to the courts to steal them), but has now had enough effect on them (fear, gaslighting, lies to them) to convince them that they would HAVE to choose to stay with him.
Please correct the name to Dr. Sam Vaknin
Thank you.
You might find this video of interest https://youtu.be/2h4P5A2VWSM?t=563&si=_4aMeBvHCn_9I1sm
This has been an extremely difficult topic for me to navigate. There is so much controversy and it breaks my heart (further) as I see already targeted parents being divided in the trenches; this often seeming to be a mom vs dad arena. The last thing we need is further division.
For context: I fled DV and my abusers have stolen my babes from me, aided by CPS and the courts. Both fathers/abusers are on different ends of the spectrum and so I have experienced with both aspects, and my stance is similar to yours, Richard. IE just because some falsely scream ‘rape,’ doesn’t mean we should take the term ‘rape’ off the table. To me it feels like a fight that isn’t worth fighting, because PA is widely enough known at this point. I personally feel like we should use what we can, because it is so difficult already to get awareness on ANY perpetrations.
My abusers didn’t start with alienation, but they have absolutely moved onto it, and continue to perpetrate it, doing all they can to destroy my babes (me being their target), as well as our bonds. My particular abusers have differing motivations for doing so, but the resulting harm is quite similar. AND I believe I could come up with ‘better’ evidence of alienation than of the other abuses that are being perpetrated on my babes.
Thank you for debating about this. I desperately wish we could all come together and focus on the behaviors and perpetrations, rather than the terms, and use what we can to get our babes safe.
Note: I will also say that we as dv survivors need to continue focusing on healing, and be extremely careful with how we conversate with our babes about their experiences. I see a very fine line between us also alienating our babes even from their/our abusers. I’m going to catch hell for this, but I do ultimately believe that once we protect them, it is important that they themselves navigate the narrative they will use to describe their experience. When my babes are safely back with me, it will be important for me to carefully address harmful behaviors without naming names.
The term is known, but it is not well defined. it means whatever each person wants it to mean. If you are fine with quack psychologists going into court to label people with pseudoscience, then don't fight it. I will. PA is a bogus term.
Maybe the definition needs addressed then? And/or what can we use that has similar awareness to get our babes safe?
Maybe, a lot of babies are unsafe because this term is used. I don't care if you use it here; except, it's not merely used by parents here. It's used by psychologists in court and with the same vague allegation.
I don't know what you mean when you say that your abuser moved to alienation. That means nothing. You need to be more specific, in my opinion.
At the risk of sounding like a utilitarian or a pragmatist, are more babies "unsafe" because of the use of the term "parental alienation" than would be the case were the term to be stricken from the legal and medical lexicon? Is the use of "parental alienation" meaningful in most divorce cases?
To use a sports analogy, I think back to 2013 in fantasy football when Peyton Manning had 55 TD passes and almost 5,500 yards passing, shattering the single season records. The percentage of players who had Manning and won their leagues was astronomical. No other player was nearly as statistically significant.
Is "parental alienation" Peyton Manning? If it's there, it always has to be looked at as THE dominant factor in divorce? Or is it some other "also ran" and there are bigger issues driving the Family Court trauma?
If the term was stricken, then people actually have to say what's happening rather than describing everything as PA. That would not only remove the false label but force people to be exact, rather than falling back on describing everything as PA. Many kids would be safer as a result.
If specificity is the measure, then isn't "domestic violence" just as inadequate of a label?
Right, I understand. I just wish there was something we could use that would cover ALL of our babes in harms way.
What I mean is that my babes would never have willingly gone to him intially (he used $, power, control, and lies to the courts to steal them), but has now had enough effect on them (fear, gaslighting, lies to them) to convince them that they would HAVE to choose to stay with him.
That sounds vague.